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Dana Nielsen is a Grammy nominated recording engineer, mixer, and producer who's worked with artists such as The Red Hot Chili Peppers, SZA, Bob Dylan, Adele, and Post Malone.
In this episode, you'll learn about:
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Credits:
Guest: Dana Nielsen
Host: Travis Ference
Editor: Stephen Boyd
Theme Music: inter.ference
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We have nothing else than our muse and our creative
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ideas of what this thing is supposed to sound like. You know, which of
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these takes sounds like a record? That's producer, engineer and mixer Dana
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Nielsen. Dana's studio experience has put him in the room with some of the top
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artists in pretty much any genre you can imagine, talking about everybody from Adele and
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Bob Dylan to SZA in the Red Hot Chili Peppers. In this episode, we get
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into Dana's vocal production and editing philosophy. But if they to
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do their thing and overall it's up
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here, I'm just going to try to keep that shape, but bring it here.
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And if there's an issue, I'm just. Going to how to set up a session
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for success every time by dialing in a great headphone mix. When they put
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the headphones on, their ideal response is like, sounds
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great, I'm good. Let's go. That's like the goal.
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Why you should always be in record. Someone had a guitar in the room
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and they were playing a different chord. That's what made it so awesome.
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So the secret wasn't the singing, but it was something else going
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on and. How your musical influences combine to give you your unique
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sound and taste as a producer. There's probably records that were
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formidable in your own upbringing and life or current life
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that you think really move you, and those become sort
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of the template or the blueprint within
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your mind's ear. As a producer, this one's a great hang. Lots of
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engineering tricks for everything from vocals to live bands, as well as Dana's takeaways from
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working with the legendary Rick Rubin and how that approach to production has shaped
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his own work. So stick around. For my interview with Dana Nielsen.
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I really wanted to talk to you about is vocal production.
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I've done potentially thousands of vocal sessions,
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some where there's a dedicated vocal producer, some where there's not.
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So I've seen the value that this can bring, but a lot of people have
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never had a chance to experience it. Why have a specific
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producer just for vocals? And what does that bring to a session,
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especially if you've got a great singer already?
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Well, let's see. I guess there's two parts to that
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answer. One is, I've never been that specific vocal
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producer role myself. I think I'm more
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a producer who loves working with vocalists.
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And if somebody were to ask me to like, hey,
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we got this awesome gig going on and it's being produced by
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so and so and so and so. And we want you to be the vocal
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producer for these vocal sessions, I'd be like, oh, yeah, cool, let's
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talk. But it's not a specific
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job that I get asked for apart from what is
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a regular, all encompassing production project.
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Production. Yeah. But the second part, I guess, which I think,
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if I can remember, was just about
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working with vocalists and the
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tools and tasks and the job that's
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there. Yeah, I love that stuff. And I think it
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comes from being a singer. And my wife is
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also a very accomplished singer. She loves
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to remind people that in high school, she was choir
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president and I was choir vice president,
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and we went to the same high school. Were you guys
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together then? Yes. Well, senior year. Yeah.
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Epic. Okay. That's awesome. Anyway, I love it. And
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I will say I'm not in a session
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trying ever to sing
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too well or do anything like that, but those
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skills are super helpful to be able to,
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when needed, as a sort of last resort, to help
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a singer find a harmony line that works and
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all these things. As a
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producer, I'm always trying to get
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the artist to find their own way and offer
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suggestions to lead them towards something. So
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that's why I say, as a last resort, I don't like to just get on
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the talk back and be like, okay, now sing this. Okay, now sing this.
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I think it'd be awesome in this part of the chorus if it had a
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harmony or something. Let's try some harmony stuff there. Oh, yeah, that's cool. Yeah, let's
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try that. And then I'm always recording several passes, like,
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oh, the ending, man. What you did there at the end of that was
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perfect. What else can you figure out for the beginning? In my mind all
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along, I know exactly what I would sing, but I want them to find
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it in part because it's them and it's their record and
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it's their expression. And also,
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they come up with stuff that isn't the thing that I have in my
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mind. That can be incredible and would never
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have heard that if it was just sort of a, here, do
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this. So it's really fun working
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with singers, and I'll say the same thing really applies
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to working with any musician searching for the gold,
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and the gold is always coming from them. And if
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you're doing your job right and creating a space, both physical
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and emotional, for them to feel free
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to try a lot of different things and
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feel okay about missing things or messing up,
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then it really becomes a job
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of sort of keeping track of and harvesting the best
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of those little nuggets that they've delivered. Yeah, it's a lot
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of fun. Yeah, no, it's great. I find. I'm sure you've been in this situation.
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You may be in a session with no producer. Might be a vocalist
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singing, working on a top line, or just replacing something,
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cutting just a vocal. Sometimes the engineer becomes, like, a de facto vocal
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producer because there's maybe only you and the singer in the room. And then
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you get put in that situation where the singer is like, was that good? And
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you were like, what shit. I was looking at the compressor. I wasn't really paying
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attention. And then you remember
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you're like, I need to maybe help this person through,
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but I can't sing. And I think the fact that you can sing
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every vocal producer that I've seen or engineer, really
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anybody that can sing who can jump in and kind of help somebody,
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I think brings so much value in today's world, because
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not everybody can sing. It's like the most difficult instrument to
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control. Right? I don't know. What do you mean
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exactly? Do you ever find yourself kind of stepping into that de facto
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role of, like, let's do one more take, maybe a little bit like this, or,
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like, giving any breath support suggestions all the time?
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Because those are the things that I think a singer brings to the table, is
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they can talk singer to the singer. You know what I mean? I think that
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that part of it has really helped me throughout
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my whole time doing this. Really
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get calls back or become more
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helpful or valuable to, whether it's to the
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artist directly or to the producer, or
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certainly when starting out to other engineers, as
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even an editor who I did years and years of
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work editing before I was ever talking directly
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to the artist or anything like that, because
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of that musical background and how it informs the
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choices, putting together comps of vocals or drum
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performances or full rhythm section performances and
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understanding. And there's never one right answer to any of this stuff.
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But being comfortable using your own
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intuition and your own muse and
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fandom and enjoyment of the music that's being recorded
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to lead you to certain decisions and
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being confident to present them as best they can be to
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whoever's next in the chain, whether it's an engineer or
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producer or artist. And I think that having a musical background has really,
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really helped with that. And as far as offering guidance
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for breath and phrasing and
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notes and harmonies, absolutely all that
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stuff. Like I say,
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I always have the
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melody or harmony or something in mind that I think will work just in
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my back pocket if needed. The other stuff, the more technical
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stuff, I'm much more ready to share, because it
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doesn't impose any type of musical
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melodic information to say for sure. I do this all the
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time. On the last couple of takes, you've got your breath
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right before the punchline of the chorus, and I've heard you do it
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previously where you made it in one breath, and it's so much more
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impactful that way. And those are things that I
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always love to do as well in honor of the artist. And their
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process is to play them back or reference
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things that they've already done that are awesome. Yes. And
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to let them be their own guide toward what's
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working. So, yeah, those types of things. I'll jump right in about
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the phrasing you did on that first pass was just killer. Let me play it
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back for you real quick, and then we're going to do a couple more. Just
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try to do that with the same energy.
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Now you're singing it louder and more vibrant, so bring the energy that you
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have now on take twelve, but use this
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awesome phrasing you did instinctually the very first time we did it, which
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was perfect then. They're kind of learning from themselves, and
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I'm just kind of keeping track of everything and
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referencing stuff that's already worked really well. Yeah. It's
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funny listening to you say that. I think know how many times
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I've done similar things, but anybody listening should go back and just pay attention
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to the way that Dana phrased all of that. Because what I heard
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was you were giving somebody notes without it sounding like
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notes. And I think that's super important when you're trying to figure out your role
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in a room. Like, playing an example is such a good move. And
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I've seen people do that because even though you could sing that phrasing to them,
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that's like, a little bit more of an aggressive approach. It is. And you're
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like, there's something about this pre chorus that's cool. You know what it is,
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and they just need to hear it so you don't have to lay it out
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there like that. So everybody should take note of the politics
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behind the words that you chose when you're describing that, which is great. Yeah.
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I like the idea of musical editing that you just kind of touched on, because
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I've done a lot of editing. You've worked on a lot of records that are
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very organic, where I would imagine the players are probably very sensitive to
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choices that are made, if there are any. I've worked in situations on a
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tv show where they'll go from a pop track to a country
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song. And the goal is to just tighten everything
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a little bit. We're not making it perfect. Right. Do you have advice for
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people on how to find that kind of musical line? I think when
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people these days think of editing, they're thinking of hitting the quantize button,
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hitting the automatic tune button in melodyne, throw
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an auto tune on. But I think there's a lot more to making musical choices.
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What do you think? Do you have anything to say about that? Absolutely.
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I think a couple of variables will
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influence a decision to do something quick and automated like that. One of them is,
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is there an insane deadline? And a lot of the.
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I do a lot of mixing and producing for ads
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and things like that. Those turnaround times are so fast
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and there isn't always time to do a
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finely crafted vocal comp and edit
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and all that stuff, which is why when I'm there to record
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those types of things, I'm often making those
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decisions on the fly very quickly, playlisting everything, but
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always pulling stuff down my top picks onto new tracks. And
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that's a whole other method of working really quickly. So there
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are times when the other variable, I was going to say, if you're under deadline
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super crunch mode, that's one. And the other
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is genre specific. So certain genres
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definitely lend themselves more to a
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quantized, be it rhythmically or harmonically
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quantized type of thing. And
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sometimes I feel like it's sloppy or should have
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been given more care. And other times it's exactly what the doctor
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ordered, but that's never my go to. Even if it's
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a super pop track, I'm always
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trying to preserve as much as
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possible of everyone's feel, even if
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it's going to be a disco beat and it's very
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same type of thing going the whole time. And maybe it's James
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Gadson or something playing this beat and the sounds are awesome and
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it's going to be a pop track full of
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synths and whatever the case may be for a modern
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sound with James Gadson playing the drums or something like that, right.
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To just throw him on a grid in service of a
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loopable sounding thing, you could definitely do. But,
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man, like, if you've ever had the chance to
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solo and then
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unsove,
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it's remarkable. You know, I'll never forget, like, quick side note
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before I get back to know the first time I ever worked with him was
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on, was it Justin Timberlake?
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It was at Neil diamond studio. And I'm trying to remember if it was with
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Neil or Justin but he was playing the groove
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and we soloed the drums and I was
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the editor. I don't remember what I was
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doing. Assistant engineer editing. I knew I was going to be
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editing this stuff anyway. And I thought to
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myself like, oh my gosh, what a mess. These
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drums, it's going to take a lot of work. I'm young and this is
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a three second analysis of someone soloing on the
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board. Like, oh man. And then you unsolo it and it's like,
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don't touch a freaking thing. It is so
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grooving. Yes. And he's playing to the band and we've just
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soloed him isolated. But man, when you put it all together, it's so good.
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So all that to say, these are world class
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musicians, as you said. They're laying down
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incredible stuff. They're vibing with other players in the room.
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What I'm trying to do is with the end result
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always in mind, and that's something that is always going on
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with me and I'm sure with you and others, that's the guiding
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force. And I talk about this in the vocal production
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course. It's like we have nothing else than
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our muse and our creative ideas of
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what this thing is supposed to sound like. Which of these takes
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sounds like a record as you would expect it to sound.
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So I'm really trying to throughout the full
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editing process when I have the time and I'm not like,
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we need this in 30 minutes or less. I
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love to first pick through the takes and
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find the takes that are inherently the
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grooviest or whatever adjective you could pick that would
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be perfect for the type of music you're working on and then
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move as little as possible all by
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ear. Don't ever do beat detective
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and stuff like that. And that's not to shame on anyone who does or
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that tool. I do use that tool all the time
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when I'm in crunch mode or when the drummer isn't a
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drummer, it's actually the guitar player who needed to late. We just needed a drum
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texture for some
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32nd Eminem's queue or something like that. Basically just
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needed a snare overhead. Yeah, we call that waveform
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donation. The rest of it is just going to
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be an editing task. But when it's
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incredible players and you have the
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time and luxury to give it your
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all, as I'm very lucky to be able to do
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a lot of the time, I want
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every awesome record sounding moment to be
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not ironed out, to be preserved.
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All the while. If the drummer and the bassist hit a note
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off where it kind of speeds up. The pocket is still there, but
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it's a little ahead of where the singer put it and then the bass player.
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So I'm moving section by section and just trying to do
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as little tuck ins and touch ups to keep what
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they do magical. Okay. Somewhere somebody's
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thinking this, and I kind of inherently have an answer to it. But I'm going
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to ask you. You said in there, pick every groovy
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moment or every hit record moment. A lot of that's
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going to come down to, I would imagine, in your opinion, taste
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like what makes something a hit record moment for you? You get a
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feeling. You just like, that's the best take, or you like the
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kind of the dirtier take. That's like, identify for somebody that has never
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sat in that chair. What makes something a record moment hard question. It
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is, and I think the answer is different for absolutely everybody.
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But I think that foundationally, it just comes from being
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a listener and a fan, knowing the records that you
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love and knowing the way they make you
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feel, and identifying that feeling in
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new recorded material that you've never heard before by way of
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working on something that just got recorded. I think that that is always
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the guiding light. And if the
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goal isn't to make a hit record, as it often isn't, the goal
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might be to make the most thrashed, non
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top 40, angry, angular, artistic
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thing you can. And within those parameters, you can
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also, if you're a fan of that style of music and
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know that type of stuff, there's probably records that
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were formidable in your own upbringing and
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life or current life that you think really move
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you. And those become sort of the template or
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the blueprint within your mind's ear as a
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producer to know which takes move you in that same
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way. So just to separate it from always everything
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needing to be a hit. There's lots of music that I love working
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on that will never be a hit, but it
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is a hit. And that's why I say sounds like
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a record, because it kind of removes it from any sort of
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commercial status. It's more a
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feeling you've succeeded in
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sounding like something I want to listen to.
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Yeah, totally. That excites me right from the first note.
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It's kind of like why I might go harder, work harder longer
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with an artist on the opening or closing line of
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a song or the intro or the
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outro. Those are real defining
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stage setting moments that when they come
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on on those records that you remember in your mind, that really move you, man,
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you know, from the second, it's not like those records that
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shape your musical identity. Like, yeah, you just got to
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wait till the second chorus. That's when the magic happens. It's like,
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no, those favorites in our minds, I have chills. Just.
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I'm not even thinking about a specific record. But note one,
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it's on. Oh, my gosh. You know, this is a thing. This
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is a vibe. It's a moment. It's a record.
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So just trying to find those moments as they're going down and
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taking note of them and remembering where to find
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them to put together. Yeah, I totally agree. Oh, man.
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I'm trying to think of one, but there are so many songs that you know
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from that first kick drum, or even though it's just like, totally. Just
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a kick drum. Same kick drum that's been on, like, 50 records, but
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that one kick drum. Yeah, totally. Shout out to the ember mug,
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by the way. Right, dude, ember mug. Good
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eye, man. Life changing. For anybody that's just
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listening, we're talking about a temperature controlled coffee mug. I mean,
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it's goddamn magical. It is.
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I've tried a lot of different heated mugs or hot
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plates for tea or coffee or whatever, and my
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amazing wife Carissa bought this for me, I don't know,
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a year or two ago, know, Christmas or
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birthday or something. And I thought, like, well, how much was
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this thing? And it's kind of know. And I was like, this is
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very sweet. Thank you. But this has got to be know. And
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then I tried it, and I was like, I need lots of these. I
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need extra warming plates. So I've got, like, a little. I got my charger right
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here. Yes. And then I have a charger that's
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always next to my bed. So when it's like, wind down tv
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time, I just move the mug into there. It's
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freaking awesome. Well, I think you've worked at studios for. It sounds like
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maybe a few years longer than me. There is nothing that sucks as bad as,
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like, you take a five minute break, you go into the lounge, like, you get
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some coffee that the runner just made. It's, like, hot. And you're like, this is
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amazing. And the singer is like, I got to sing right now. And you put
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it down, and then you come back, like, 2 hours later, and you're just like,
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oh, I'm just going to throw it out now. I'll just start over. But just
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the fact that my coffee is hot for, like, always, I don't know, like an
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hour and a half, you can just kind of just sit there. This has nothing
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to do with music, but it's a super important thing to remember people.
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I would argue it has everything to do with music.
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Yeah, totally. I drink
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coffee all day, and I always have my
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yetis and stuff like that. When
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I'm on the go, if I know I'm going to be at a studio for
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a long time, several days or weeks, I bring the
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ember set up with me. I travel with it.
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My wife and I do that too. We go on vacation. We take our
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ember. Totally. I was just talking about this with an
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awesome member in mixed protege who also is super coffee
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aholic. And we were talking know, well,
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what's your favorite place in Nashville for coffee? And he had just moved
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there. And I was like, honestly, I don't know. Because whenever
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I go work in Nashville or anywhere, I pack my
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ember. I pack freshly ground beans of my
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choosing. I've got a mini kettle, hot water
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kettle. I've got a little pour over set up just because I love
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waking up to good coffee. And if there isn't coffee available,
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that's good. I just have less of a pep in
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my step. And it's like, I'm going to the studio to work all day. I
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need that pep. That's right. Yeah. Coffee in the studio is
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definitely a thing. And there's so many engineers that, I mean,
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we're already easily distracted by details. Like, tweak
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this, tweak that, tweak that. And then you're like, hey, do you want to roast
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your own beans? You want to get this expensive grinder? Do you need an espresso
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machine? It's just like, straight down the rabbit
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hole. Straight into the rabbit hole. Absolutely.
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And especially as engineers or
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people who are gear obsessed anyway, as well,
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add that obsession to it, and it's like, now, of course, there's all kinds of
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coffee gear you can have. It's totally
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true. That's totally true. Well, I had a question that was going to follow up
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whatever we were talking about, but that's obviously gone now. So let's do a hard
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change. I want to talk vocal tuning a little bit. I know that you're a
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big Melodyne user. Hopefully you're not
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sponsored by ceremony in any way. No, but
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Melodyne Ara and pro tools, fucking amazing.
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But do you think it sounds different? I feel like it sounds different. Interesting.
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I feel like it's a little bit more processed, but just being
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able to do that has been a lifesaver. But I don't like to do leads
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in it. I just feel a little sketched out. Am I crazy? What do you
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think? I don't know. And I love
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this question because I recently had a text
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exchange with someone else who was asking about
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sound quality.
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That whole side thing, I kind of was like, I've never heard what you're
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hearing and you're in a different daw. I don't know what the
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scene is over there. Yeah, but from my experience, the
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Ara came out and I'm like, about
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time. I cannot wait. And I jumped right into it,
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and I loved it. I loved not having to
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render. I loved being able to trim or do some clip
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gain on a piece of audio that's in
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Melodyne. But once it's in Melodyne, you're
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kind of stuck. You can't do any more editing when you're using the plugin. So,
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as you know, to have that Ara support is game changing.
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To be able to just freely roam about the clips and the
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melodyne everything, it's great. But man,
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I got burned twice
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where hours and hours and hours of work
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just up and vanished, where you open the session the next day and
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it's like, no, we can't find the transfers of this
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stuff. And at first I was like, well, this may
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be my first time, and it wasn't that much time that I lost. And I
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was like, that's weird. And then it happened again.
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I'd spent so much time editing these very tricky vocals,
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and I lost it all. And I was like, this is
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crazy. I will not use this until they get this
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sorted out. And I'm not sponsored by anyone. I
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feel bad putting that out there, but I don't know if it's avid
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or ceremony or whatever, but for me, not
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ready for primetime. So I've moved back to my
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regular way of the plugin. I have melodyne pro
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or studio. It's expensive, and I tell people
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who are just getting into it, you definitely want
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assistant, at least. You need all the tools,
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like spring for at least the assistant. And here's the
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reason why. Even though it is very expensive, but
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it's what I do, so I do the studio, and I love that you can.
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I never use the standalone, but the ability to see all
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your melodyne tracks in one interface and transfer
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them in. That was a huge change when they did that. It's great. And there's
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one other thing in there in studio. I can't think
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of what it is, but that really sets it. There's a really nice
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benefit to have. It escapes me at the moment. But, yeah,
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I totally love it. And I'm not sure where the hang
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up on the Ara portion is. I really, really want
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to use that, and I just can't yet. So all that to
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say, in the short time I used it, I didn't notice really any
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sound differences. I wasn't looking for any,
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but I hope one day soon, under a
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new release or something with promised stability,
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I'll be able to weigh in on that. Luckily, Nagawood, I have
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not had that problem. But I do know one other person that lost
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what they were working on, and I feel like. I don't know. You know how
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you can convince yourself so easily? Like, you can mismatch a compressor and then just
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turn the knob and be like, a tiny bit, and you're like, yeah, that sounds
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great. And the assistant's like, yeah, that's not on.
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Everybody's done it, but to me, it feels like it gets a little bit, like,
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whatever the flattened tool is. Yeah, there's, like, the d
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vibrato and then the one that evens it.
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Yeah, that one seems more aggressive. I do
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things with that that I used to do, and now when I do it,
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that's when I start to hear. When you have a long, sustained note, I start
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to hear a process there, but, oh, yeah. Anyway, I've gotten in the habit of
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just, like, fixing. You listen to Bvs while you're mixing, and there's like,
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obviously one side is flat. It's just so nice to be able to select that
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word, load it into Melodyne, push it up just
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as far as it needs to go, and then commit it. And that might be
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the reason that I haven't run into the problem that you're having is I'm very
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quickly committing it and just moving on with my life. I think
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that I got lured into the
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romantic notion that I wouldn't have to commit until
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the end, maybe mix time or something like that.
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But I will say I use Melodyne
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constantly, and I'm very
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attuned to what the processing sounds like
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when it does become audible. I'm also very in
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tune to what it sounds like on films and tv shows, and
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I bang my head against the wall, especially on those that are giant
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budget going, like, who melodyned this?
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You can hear it so clearly, but. You know,
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you've done at least. I've been in this situation where somebody on, like, an overdub
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vo stage records some famous person singing
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acapella, and then they send it to the composer, and the composer is like, you
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want me to do what, with this? Yeah, no, and I do that.
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I've recorded so many superstar
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actors and athletes and stuff like that. And you can do
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it. You can work magic. You can make pretty
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much anyone. Of course, I'm usually there producing them as well
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to help get at least the, you know, it's not like a self record or
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something like that, but it can be done. And so
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I always feel like it's sort of. Sometimes I hear what I think is the
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equivalent of the auto mode set to stun or something
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like that. I guess I'm in it all the time and I know what it
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sounds like when it's audible, and so I'm constantly vigilant
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about not being audible, and I love that.
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I can't remember what it's called either, but the one that takes the average, use
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that constantly. But I do
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chop things a lot, and I
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think I touch on this in the vocal production course as well, where
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I'm definitely. When a long note or even a
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short know has a big
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goes, he probably wouldn't even remember this. But when Andrew Shepps
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was showing me Melodyne for the first time, this was on a
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system of a down album, a double album.
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There was some long know. He's like, oh, see, this one's got all
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the warbles. You can see the crazy vibrato. It's like it's got a little too
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much mustard on it. So I always think of it
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as when I'm fixing the mustard on something
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that's really got a lot, rather than flatten it all
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out or take the average. I'm definitely not
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going to cut every mustard vibrato, but when you get those
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crazy shapes or the general vibe is like,
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it started sharp and then it went flat. I'm definitely going to chop that
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and move them. Maintain the mustard shape, but
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bring it kind of globally in line. And then I love using
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the note transition tool to
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smooth out those bumps. That's always my first go to.
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I guess it kind of falls in line with what we were talking about with
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drum editing. It's like, I want to keep
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as much as I can that the artist
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sang and you can see it. It's one of the wild things about working
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in graphic editors like that. You can see somebody's
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vocal idiosyncrasies, like, oh, it's interesting. I never would have noticed
Speaker:
it, but they always attack from above the note, or
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they always have this deep swoop on certain
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things or just the stuff that is who we are.
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We all do these things. It's just bizarre or surreal to
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see it, but that's what makes them them. And I'm not there to
Speaker:
flatten all that stuff out, but if they do their
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thing and overall it's up here, I'm just going to try
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to keep that shape, but bring it here. And if
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there's an issue, I'm just going to chop the part. That's the
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issue. My thing that I never want
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to do is just. I never want to have it sound
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perfect because it's not. And there will even be
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cases when I've corrected some issues to the left
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and the right. And now this note that I haven't even
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corrected sounds like it's been corrected, even though it
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hasn't. They just nailed that note. I might even
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mess with that note a bit just because I need these to be perfect.
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This one's insignificant, but it, for some reason, is sounding
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tuned. I never want it to
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feel worked on. And
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there's a lot of stuff that I mentioned in that vocal production course
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about ways to force yourself to be a
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listener and not be looking at the screen and to
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constantly be checking your work away
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from the sweet spot. And with a lyric
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sheet to keep track of things that you hear that are
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odd. And sometimes the things that I hear that are OD
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haven't even been worked on. Or there's little surprises
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where it's like, oh, it's not from me. I didn't even
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put that into Melodyne. It sounds tuned or whatever, and
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then you're like, well, it caught my ear. So what are we going to do
Speaker:
about it? Let's go looking through the raw takes and see if there's a
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better piece to put into that comp right there. Yeah, I was going to say
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just two quick melodyne tips. One, I've found tuning really
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quiet makes it really apparent that something is
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out. Yeah, that's good. Yeah. And I like to do a pass with the
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music, tune it with the music, but then do a solo pass
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where you just listen down and I find that anytime you've put something in the
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wrong note, it's very clear when you're in solo that
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you've gone out of scale. And sometimes in the music, you don't catch it in
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the music for some reason. But it's that solo moment where you're like, whoa, okay,
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that's a half step out. My bad. Sorry, guys.
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For sure. I mean, to add on to that, I would say I never
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tune in headphones. There's some kind of weird
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acoustic weirdness. You ever be
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like, working in headphones for a while, and then you take
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them off and it sounds like the song's in a different key. There's just
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weird stuff that pitch wise, I'm not saying music can't be enjoyed
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in headphones. I love listening in headphones, but when it comes to pitch, I don't
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really trust it. I'll do it in a hotel room or something if I have
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to. Yeah. It's definitely less than ideal. I agree with that. I agree.
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Yeah. Since you said headphones, you've recorded a lot of bands, you've recorded a lot
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of singers. Something that I haven't somehow not really talked about on this
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show is how important a headphone mix is. I mean, especially for
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singers, right? Oh, gosh, yeah. Do you have any thoughts on
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just, like, how do you approach a band session versus a singer? Do you give
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singers control or do you give them what you want so you can kind of
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help them out? What's your headphone mixer philosophy when it comes to
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just making music? Headphone mixes are everything.
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Everything. Like, if I had to pick a more amazing sound,
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like, I'd rather the headphone mix be killing while I work
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out the control room mix for myself later.
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If it's a full band and we have the luxury
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of mixer systems, like a private
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queue or some of the other Furman or here
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back or some of those things, that can be great. It definitely
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takes a load off the engineer to an extent. Yeah,
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right. It can also be very overwhelming for certain artists.
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So when using a system like that,
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I'm always, and with how
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staff or assistants are on this as well,
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constantly throughout the day or first thing in the
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day, making sure that those are set
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nicely. And I talk to the artists and every one of the musicians as
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well, band members or studio players or whatever,
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before giving them the headphones, just a quick
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conversation. Do you know these things? Have you used this thing before? I'm sure you
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have. But here's kind of. I like to set the
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master, like around noon or 02:00
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it will go super loud. So here's kind of how I do it, because that
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way, then you've got a little headroom to some play to give yourself some
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more overall volume. And I'll do it too. I love the
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private cues, and they all have this, I think, where I can have my own
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headphones as I'm showing them this and I'm building the mix
Speaker:
for us. And so I always kind of give them a starter, make sure they
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understand where everything is. Everything is labeled really clear
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and then unless there's an issue,
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I won't mess with their settings because they're going to make
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themselves at home and get something that works for them. And until I hear
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that, hey, I'm all the way up, I'm blah, blah, blah, and I can't get
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more. Let's run out there. Oh, I see what happened.
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You turned your master fader down and everything's cranked. So
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I'm going to turn all these down and I'll just walk them through it again
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right there with my headphones. There might be a million things going on. I'm doing
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this really fast. Like, I. I got got you, you. Here's what happened. We'll bring
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this back. I'm going to bring this up. Is this cool? And
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I'm not doing it blind or deaf, as the case may be.
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I'm doing it listening and quickly putting it together, something that I think sounds
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good. So those systems are
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great once people know how
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to set themselves up. So the caveat
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being like, I always premix all those boxes
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to a way, and I'll sit at every location
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and listen and set up a mix that I think
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they'll dig. So when they put the headphones on,
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their ideal response is like, here, let me show you this mixer.
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And like, oh, I mean, it sounds great.
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I'm good. Let's go. That's like the goal. Yeah.
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And if that works out, then of course
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it becomes really handy because it takes some work off
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of me as an engineer to chase every
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player's individual request. And if there's a lot of players, that
Speaker:
can be a lot of requests. Yeah. So the other side of that, which is
Speaker:
probably much more applicable to the majority of listeners
Speaker:
and home recording people and even a lot of studios,
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is just like, I'm in tons of situations, my
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studio included, where you get what I'm hearing,
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and there's a great simplicity to that. There's a great benefit
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to that as well, because you're hearing
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what I'm hearing. So I'm always tinkering with things and trying to make it as
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good as possible. Unlike the boxes, it's much
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less of a set it and forget it. Now, the flip side of that, of
Speaker:
course, is any changes that I want to make,
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even on input, they're going to hear those things.
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And so I make all of those changes during a recording
Speaker:
pass. I try not to do it during a recording pass, but if I have
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to, very subtle moves. Yeah, that's a good
Speaker:
point. And very subtle moves always during recording
Speaker:
on the input side. If I'm getting a lot and too many
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overs on, let's say, wow, the singer is really
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singing a lot louder than that first pass. And we're
Speaker:
in a recorded take. I'm going to find either a fully variable fader on the
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output of the mic pre or something like that. Or if there's
Speaker:
only detented options, I'll pick a spot where they're taking
Speaker:
a breath and I've heard this part before, and I'll click it down real fast
Speaker:
in a moment. That won't ruin the recording. But even if you're not
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recording and you're making changes to what
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they're listening to, the rhythm section track that's pre recorded and we're in
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overdub land, it's very easy for me to.
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Yes, I've got an ear on what they're singing and everything, but
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the bass should be louder and like, oh, I forgot, the
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percussion is muted. Don't do any of that stuff. Or
Speaker:
certainly don't turn on percussion when they're in the middle of a
Speaker:
pass. I might turn up the bass, but I'll do it on the
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playback fader very gently. So I'm always
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trying to be very aware of what's going. Yeah, they're hearing what I'm
Speaker:
hearing. One of the bummers
Speaker:
with that limited setup, of which there are relatively few, there's
Speaker:
great case to be made for just like. Yeah, keep it simple. One of the
Speaker:
downsides with that, of course, is, like, if someone needs click and
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there's only one, the headphones are a mirror
Speaker:
of the mix bus. That means I'm going to be listening
Speaker:
to a bunch of click, too, which is not ideal. Much rather
Speaker:
be like, you got the click knob on your. It's channel seven.
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Turn it up. Everybody else can turn it down, whatever. I'm not
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listening to it. I will always keep it. If I'm on a
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console, I'll keep that click in the mix enough
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so that when everybody stops playing and I'm still recording, just to catch any
Speaker:
extra magic. Oh, the clicks on. Let me turn that off.
Speaker:
So it's just not like blasting. I like to be in record in
Speaker:
between takes because some incredible stuff can happen.
Speaker:
And if that click is going, a, it's going to be super obnoxious, and b,
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they'll know a recording is happening and I want them to not
Speaker:
be self conscious about that stuff. That's a pretty
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awesome trick right there. I wanted to go back and just tell everybody
Speaker:
how important it is not to turn that neve knob in the
Speaker:
singer's long. Like, if something is a
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little overcompressed or on the edge of distortion
Speaker:
and you're like, oh, I have to turn this down. Just wait until the gap,
Speaker:
like Dana said, you're going to get a breath. If you're going to screw something
Speaker:
up, screw the breath up. Flip that knob. Right. Because that might
Speaker:
be the best long note that they do. And it's easier
Speaker:
to. Okay, a most listeners are not going to hear that. It's over compressed
Speaker:
or distorted and you can kind of fix the distortion to a certain extent these
Speaker:
days. So like, don't. Yeah, there's plenty of records that have
Speaker:
mistakes in the best part, so don't put a mistake in.
Speaker:
Know that's perfectly, very
Speaker:
well said, but. I wanted to follow up with you talking about staying in
Speaker:
record. This feels like something that maybe comes from your time with Rick. This sounds
Speaker:
like something that he would be into to always be recording because you never know
Speaker:
what's going to happen. Yeah, for sure. What's the philosophy behind that? How often
Speaker:
do you do it? And what if you're doing playlists? Do you flip real
Speaker:
quick, go back and record? Like you just let it?
Speaker:
The always, always be recording for sure is
Speaker:
very much learned from Rick with
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safeguards know where there's two parts to this on one
Speaker:
hand, in those sessions and in any
Speaker:
studio that I'm working that has
Speaker:
another system. Like we call it the dat rig at Shangri
Speaker:
La. Just hearkening back to the olden days
Speaker:
of dats, always getting a running two track mix of
Speaker:
what's coming off the console. These days we do that obviously with just
Speaker:
a know little Apollo setup or something like that.
Speaker:
And that's a really handy thing that
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I've gotten in the habit over the years as well. Anywhere,
Speaker:
to always have this separate rig recording
Speaker:
everything. Just a stereo mix. Usually it's a
Speaker:
stereo mix off the console or if we're talking in the
Speaker:
box type of thing, it could just be a malted output from one and two
Speaker:
of the DaW or something, but it's going to a separate DAW
Speaker:
that is recording all day long.
Speaker:
And it would usually be the
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console mix bus output plus
Speaker:
ascend from whatever studio talkback is going on.
Speaker:
You popping those talkbacks on and off between takes, I'm assuming.
Speaker:
Well, yes and yes and
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no. There's a couple of different ways to do it, but whatever it is, or
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at least my talkback, if not everyone else's, and
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it's usually everyone else's because we're usually tying all those things together.
Speaker:
Talkback mics out in the room, which will either be on
Speaker:
one of their mixer knobs for them to control, or
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oftentimes I have it on a fader on the console
Speaker:
where I can bring it up for them in between takes,
Speaker:
so that they are always hearing my talk back
Speaker:
and Rick's talk back if we're working. And then they
Speaker:
can hear their band talk back only when I bring the fader up in
Speaker:
between takes, so that during takes they're not hearing a room
Speaker:
full of super compressed talkback mics. And then whatever that
Speaker:
system is built on, usually an augs send on the console, we
Speaker:
can malt that send, and send that to a third channel on the dat
Speaker:
rig, so that separate from the gold
Speaker:
nuggets of what's coming through the console, we'll have the
Speaker:
talkback as well. I'm always recording in
Speaker:
pro tools, multi track. The moment the artist
Speaker:
arrives, I hit record. I've already tested all the tracks.
Speaker:
I've already done a half hour of recording while we're
Speaker:
doing final setup, just to make sure the
Speaker:
discs are taking it. And we're not going to have any hiccups or surprises when
Speaker:
the artist arrives. Even if I hear them down the
Speaker:
hall, we go into record. And of course, the DaT rig
Speaker:
is always recording, so if I'm not in record, we
Speaker:
can still catch. Oftentimes it'll be somebody in the control
Speaker:
room in between. We've listened to playback of a take,
Speaker:
and now we're discussing next moves or ideas.
Speaker:
And pro tools isn't running because we're not listening to anything. And there aren't
Speaker:
like live mics for recording per se in the control room,
Speaker:
but there are mics going to that dat recorder. And so if
Speaker:
anybody is like, oh, what if the chorus went, dad.
Speaker:
And then, oh, that's a great idea. And then a minute later they're
Speaker:
like, what was that thing that you sang?
Speaker:
I don't remember. To the dat rig.
Speaker:
It's on there. And now you've captured that
Speaker:
thing. So even if in the control room, a magic idea
Speaker:
occurs and isn't quickly remembered, there's a record of
Speaker:
it. But what I was going to say is like, I might hear the band
Speaker:
enter the studio down the hall
Speaker:
or something like that, or be told that they just arrived.
Speaker:
I'm going to throw it and record just in case someone starts
Speaker:
singing down that hallway or busts into the studio singing
Speaker:
opera voice, being funny, and it's hysterical and would make a
Speaker:
hilarious outro to a song or whatever. The worst that
Speaker:
can happen is I'll burn through
Speaker:
45 minutes of nothing, and I've been
Speaker:
listening the whole time, and nothing happened. They haven't even entered the
Speaker:
studio, and they're just having a meeting out there. I just command
Speaker:
period. And it's like it never happened. And then I immediately command
Speaker:
Spacebar and start recording again. So when I know that I'm
Speaker:
doing my due diligence, but nothing has happened, nobody's even in the
Speaker:
studio at the moment. Just command period. The disk space is
Speaker:
back to where it was, but you have to be very certain
Speaker:
that you know what you're doing with that command period, because there is
Speaker:
no undo for that. No coming back from that one. No.
Speaker:
That's awesome. Yeah. So always recording, because you never know
Speaker:
what's going to happen. Also, too, if there's nothing going on and the band isn't
Speaker:
even in the room. But I need to go to the bathroom. I'm in
Speaker:
record, and I'll just make eyes with the assistant. Like, I'm
Speaker:
rolling. Just step over if anything happens and I come back and
Speaker:
anything happened now they're still outside. Okay. Command period. Whatever.
Speaker:
Yeah. That's amazing. To your recollection, has anything ever come
Speaker:
off that dat rig that got released or added to anything?
Speaker:
I'm sure. Well, two things more often. I'm also
Speaker:
catching it on pro tools. Right on the main rig.
Speaker:
And in that sense, yeah, tons of stuff.
Speaker:
But what the dat rig is
Speaker:
more often helpful for
Speaker:
are just referencing an idea that was fleeting,
Speaker:
that just somebody just needs a refresher of.
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And this happens so often, too, where it's like, I remember
Speaker:
what I sang or speaking as if I were the artist
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or the band or something, or maybe it was even an idea that
Speaker:
I threw out there or something, and I'll try to recreate
Speaker:
it, but. There. Was something
Speaker:
about the way it went down, and then you can go back and
Speaker:
listen, and it's like, oh, yeah, I'm singing exactly what I sang. But I
Speaker:
didn't realize that someone had a guitar in the room and
Speaker:
they were playing a different chord. That's what made it so awesome.
Speaker:
So the secret wasn't the singing, but it was something else going
Speaker:
on in the room, and they weren't even in the room with us. These mics
Speaker:
were picking up somebody tinkering on the piano out there. So it's
Speaker:
like ghost hunting. Yeah. Just got to
Speaker:
be ready. Better have that EKG or
Speaker:
whatever it's called, rolling to catch the spooky
Speaker:
stuff. That's amazing. Well, since we're kind of on the topic. I wanted to ask
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you a question about working with Rick. Is there one thing that
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you took away from working with him that you think you could really only
Speaker:
take away from working with a producer like that in the. Like he could tell
Speaker:
people how he works. There must be a million things that stick with you. But
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is there a standout? Yeah, there's a million. I'd
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say just seeing the way he
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works with people and runs
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the session, including myself and my
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services and everybody else on staff, and
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it's all an extension of him and
Speaker:
his style and seeing him
Speaker:
diffuse so many worried artists or
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seeing him encourage ideas, just watching that
Speaker:
interaction has been just an incredible
Speaker:
experience for all the many years that
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we've worked on stuff together. It's just always a treat
Speaker:
when I see other people in sessions getting really angry
Speaker:
or. It's not part of his world
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to be volatile or
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angry like that. And certainly everybody's different,
Speaker:
and artists bring their whole situation to
Speaker:
a recording, and recording in general can be very nerve
Speaker:
wracking under the microscope or you want to do your best and all that.
Speaker:
He's just very encouraging and
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relaxing and a great listener, both to
Speaker:
music and to the ideas and concerns
Speaker:
of the artist. It's wonderful. Yeah, it's been awesome
Speaker:
to. I mean, I can't imagine. I've never met Rick
Speaker:
yet alone worked with him. But I think a lot of people
Speaker:
know, they think about production. Production is now like, it's so much about
Speaker:
the technicalities and making everything, and it's like, oh, yeah,
Speaker:
you're not really killing that guitar part. Let me get that guitar. I'll play it
Speaker:
for you. There's so much of that that I think people forget that
Speaker:
making art is about people. And when you have producers like
Speaker:
Rick or some of the classic producers, that old school
Speaker:
mentality of like, I'm not going to play any music, I'm just going to guide
Speaker:
these people where I think they should go. I think that's just
Speaker:
like. Maybe it's because I'm getting older, but to me that's just like,
Speaker:
so I would love to get to that point, but you're talking about people that
Speaker:
are on this other level of emotional understanding. I'm
Speaker:
sure that it was a trip to get to work with him regularly, so that's
Speaker:
great. Yeah, he's amazing. I have nothing
Speaker:
but love and total respect
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and thankful to be taken along for so many
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rides like that. And I know exactly what you're saying. The
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word producer or the meaning of it as it relates to music
Speaker:
has really changed or maybe split
Speaker:
into a couple of different meanings. And I think a
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lot about that stuff, not just to be
Speaker:
philosophical about it, but really as it relates to
Speaker:
work that I do and explaining
Speaker:
roles to what I can bring, wearing different
Speaker:
hats to an artist project. Lately I've been thinking a lot about,
Speaker:
like, maybe it's like, yeah, these two different forks.
Speaker:
There's songwriter producers and there's
Speaker:
record producers. And I mean that in the
Speaker:
literal copyright sense, right? Not in
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any sort of hierarchical. I like that name better.
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But I mean, literally, there are a lot of producers who I think
Speaker:
are songwriters, and all of the above are working
Speaker:
towards the record. The sound recording is what I
Speaker:
mean by that. But there are certainly a lot of producers who
Speaker:
excel at the songwriting
Speaker:
part, and producer has become, I
Speaker:
think, through especially sort of r and b, hip hop beat
Speaker:
making culture the de facto name for
Speaker:
someone who writes songs in that genre and
Speaker:
also puts the sounds together in a sound
Speaker:
recording. But I think that that's sometimes confusing
Speaker:
about the more traditional record producer who
Speaker:
is maybe not less of a songwriter,
Speaker:
or perhaps is, but isn't there for that role,
Speaker:
someone who likes to work with songwriters
Speaker:
to create the best sound recording, the best record
Speaker:
possible for that moment, for that song for which
Speaker:
there might be dozens of different records serving that song?
Speaker:
And my dream has always, even though I am
Speaker:
a musician, I do a lot of writing and co writing.
Speaker:
My real main love is record
Speaker:
producing, record making, being helpful
Speaker:
in an overall guidance type of way
Speaker:
for a project that might have
Speaker:
various writers and songwriter
Speaker:
producers involved. Yeah, it's a tricky
Speaker:
one, to your point. The terminology changes
Speaker:
and can be hard to understand or
Speaker:
dissect or explain to others. And I'm not sure that my answer is
Speaker:
the right answer. It's just kind of how I've been thinking about it
Speaker:
lately. Yeah, I think it depends a lot on the
Speaker:
artist you think about. Maybe there's a great singer who
Speaker:
doesn't really write. They're just looking for great songs
Speaker:
versus a band that's been together for 30 years, that they have a thing
Speaker:
and they're just like, looking for a different flavor. There's two different types of producers
Speaker:
that are going to take on those situations, and that's just very true.
Speaker:
Those are two different jobs. Not to say there's not a person out there that
Speaker:
can do both of them, but you're going to put a different hat on to
Speaker:
do those two. Yeah, well said, for sure. Okay, before we
Speaker:
go, we were just talking about the most human of human producers now
Speaker:
let's talk about the least human thing possible. Good segue.
Speaker:
Yeah. AI. Right, so I was thinking about
Speaker:
this. We chatted about it before we started. I don't really have a question here,
Speaker:
but I feel like AI is coming to every
Speaker:
industry. I think it's going to be a little bit slower to come to music,
Speaker:
but it's going to be here one day, and I think it's going to affect
Speaker:
who works and who doesn't. What do you think is going to make
Speaker:
a person, whether they're an engineer, a mixer or
Speaker:
producer, still valuable as these AI tools
Speaker:
come? Yeah, it's a total relevant,
Speaker:
heavy question that everybody's thinking of in every single
Speaker:
industry. I think that the short
Speaker:
answer to me, as someone who doesn't have the answers and
Speaker:
is just as apprehensive of it and
Speaker:
excited about AI, I love all this stuff is, I think,
Speaker:
people. And of course, I'm immediately
Speaker:
reminded to myself of one of my favorite moments in the
Speaker:
movie office space, where the one dude is, like, trying to preserve his
Speaker:
job by explaining that I'm a people person.
Speaker:
I'm good with people. Sure you are, buddy. Yeah. But
Speaker:
I think that that is, at least
Speaker:
for recording and the
Speaker:
capturing of ideas
Speaker:
we've already seen with no disrespect or slight
Speaker:
whatsoever to the amazing mastering engineers that I love
Speaker:
working with and continue to. But there is a field that companies
Speaker:
are, and have been for a while, aggressively pursuing as a sort of
Speaker:
automated thing with limited results. Again, I
Speaker:
think much like our beat detective sort of
Speaker:
chat, it's maybe kind of a similar thing. If you're in a low
Speaker:
budget time crunch, there's some pretty neat tools out there.
Speaker:
But when you're working on your
Speaker:
life's work and your next album or
Speaker:
your first album, and there's a
Speaker:
difference between that and just sort of work that we sometimes do for
Speaker:
volume's sake. And I don't mean like vu volume. I mean, like, got to
Speaker:
get all these cues out for a deadline that's, you know, and they need to
Speaker:
be. So I hope and think that those
Speaker:
relational connections, the teasing
Speaker:
out in person of those ghosts we were
Speaker:
talking about, and creating a space for artists
Speaker:
to feel open to record,
Speaker:
creating a space that's free, hopefully, of
Speaker:
technical difficulties, where all the headphone mixes sound
Speaker:
amazing, right? And you can really just plop down,
Speaker:
hit record and experiment and talk about it and
Speaker:
choose the most meaningful takes. And I say meaningful. Trying to
Speaker:
think of, like, well, how would a computer choose the best takes?
Speaker:
And as we've already discussed, there is a difference between
Speaker:
perfection and intonation and rhythm and
Speaker:
what moves you emotionally.
Speaker:
Certainly some AI could, and probably already has
Speaker:
dissected the entire history of the
Speaker:
billboard catalog to see
Speaker:
what these things have in common or whatnot. But I have to think that
Speaker:
making records is a lot of fun for all its
Speaker:
vulnerabilities and technical
Speaker:
difficulties and long hours and whatever, but it is
Speaker:
fun and it's an amazing way to connect with other people,
Speaker:
just kind of by nature of what it is.
Speaker:
I hope that those qualities will give
Speaker:
it some longevity. And all the while,
Speaker:
like I say, I love technology and I'm
Speaker:
excited in my own way about all the cool AI
Speaker:
stuff that's happening, so I try not to be too
Speaker:
salem witch trials about this stuff. I
Speaker:
agree. Yeah. It's actually funny listening to you talk about
Speaker:
it. I think what we were just talking about with that old school classic producer
Speaker:
people like Rick that are very in touch with the human aspect.
Speaker:
I feel like that's the thing that you're never going to lose. And maybe
Speaker:
AI will actually be a little bit freeing
Speaker:
for the producer engineer that wants
Speaker:
to not have to focus so much on those technicals
Speaker:
and can start to play that more human role. Maybe it'll
Speaker:
actually allow everybody to be part of that emotional,
Speaker:
artistic conversation and not have to worry about exactly
Speaker:
what's going on with this or that. And we'll have our AI headphone
Speaker:
mixer assistant and get the coffee runner.
Speaker:
But that's very cool prediction. That's really
Speaker:
interesting. Yeah. In worst case, you and I can start an AI headphone mixer company
Speaker:
and we'll be good. Why not stamp the TM right on. That's
Speaker:
right. Ideas taken, people. It's taken. That's right. Back
Speaker:
off. Awesome, dude. This has been a lot of fun. Let me hit you with
Speaker:
the last questions, because I know you're mixing like 10,000 projects. Yeah. And you got
Speaker:
to get to work. And you've got a kid and I've got a kid. We
Speaker:
got a lot of stuff going on. Yeah. So I don't know how much you've
Speaker:
listened to the show, but the first question I like to close with is, was
Speaker:
there a time in your career where you chose to redefine what success meant to
Speaker:
you? Every day, man. Every day.
Speaker:
It's a true answer. Yeah. It's something that
Speaker:
is considered almost daily or
Speaker:
think, you know, probably an answer you've heard a lot is know, being
Speaker:
able to do any of this is a real know.
Speaker:
To be able to work in the music industry in a
Speaker:
town like LA, where so much has happened, and
Speaker:
to kind of rub shoulders with awesome people, whether
Speaker:
they're famous or just awesome because they're awesome, is
Speaker:
really remarkable. Let's see when I
Speaker:
changed what it means. It's a
Speaker:
great question. It's a thinker. It is a thinker.
Speaker:
There's probably age and fatherhood and things like
Speaker:
that. Redefine certain things or
Speaker:
prioritize different things. Covid
Speaker:
certainly changed and reprioritized different things.
Speaker:
I think for me, it's just always been the
Speaker:
surroundings are constantly changing. But I think that
Speaker:
my idea of success has fairly
Speaker:
remained unchanged in just that. If I can just
Speaker:
keep doing this thing, this thing that I get to
Speaker:
do professionally for money, is also this
Speaker:
thing that I just can't get enough of anyway.
Speaker:
Like, I love it. I've just always been just enamored by music.
Speaker:
So that's always the goal. The success goal is just
Speaker:
to just hang on a little longer.
Speaker:
It feels good to get to work in your passion and have that be your
Speaker:
job, and we all feel fortunate and lucky.
Speaker:
Yeah, for sure. And the last question I've got for you, before I let you
Speaker:
get back to work, what is your current biggest goal and what is the next
Speaker:
smallest step you're going to take to go towards it? Oh, man.
Speaker:
I've been spending a lot of time thinking about that. I
Speaker:
think that aside from
Speaker:
some fantastic projects that I'm in the midst
Speaker:
of that. My next step being just working on the mixes and getting them
Speaker:
out. I think the next biggest
Speaker:
goal has been this platform, the mixed protege
Speaker:
stuff. Making courses has been something
Speaker:
that's been a goal for a while and has been
Speaker:
happening, and that's really, really neat. I've always loved
Speaker:
teaching. That's always been a part of my
Speaker:
life. But as a saxophone teacher in high school,
Speaker:
and certainly my first gigs out in LA were
Speaker:
consulting studios. Changing from tape to pro tools
Speaker:
or working with different clients comes natural for me,
Speaker:
getting other people fired up about what they can
Speaker:
do in their studio. And I love seeing
Speaker:
people that light turn on.
Speaker:
I think that my current goal is
Speaker:
to keep finding wonderful people
Speaker:
who are fired up about their
Speaker:
own recording and producing and mixing journeys
Speaker:
and, yeah, the next little steps toward that. That's kind of what
Speaker:
I work on late at night. I'm a night owl. I get
Speaker:
my ladies to bed, as I call it, my wife and my
Speaker:
daughter. And then I spend
Speaker:
countless hours working in the living room, just on the
Speaker:
laptop, figuring out how to
Speaker:
bring value to the folks who are in
Speaker:
that mix protege platform that's awesome. Which this
Speaker:
is probably one of the earlier mentions of it. It's something
Speaker:
that I've been doing for my assistants for a while
Speaker:
to train my mix prep
Speaker:
setup so that I'm not always doing that in person. And
Speaker:
the vocal production class is in there now, and I've got forums and I'm
Speaker:
doing, like, live mixing. Very cool. When I'm working with an artist
Speaker:
who's agreed to it, can I live stream some of what I'm working on on
Speaker:
your project to my mixed protege crew? So
Speaker:
just really trying to keep them stoked and be a
Speaker:
helpful source for people who are trying to up their game. Cool,
Speaker:
man. That's awesome. Well, before we go, let people know where they
Speaker:
can find you if they want to work together. If they want to learn more
Speaker:
about mixed protege, whatever you got, you should throw it out there. Cool.
Speaker:
My website is Dana nielsen.com. Last
Speaker:
name is Nielsen.
Speaker:
And that's where people can. I've got a little form
Speaker:
to start a project inquiry. If you want me to kind of the
Speaker:
do it for you services of producing, mixing,
Speaker:
engineering, et cetera. And then if you want to
Speaker:
learn with me and hang out as part of the
Speaker:
community, that's mixedprotige.com and
Speaker:
love to say hi. Come say hi, shoot me a message or
Speaker:
sign up for free, or send me your project
Speaker:
inquiry on my site and. Nice. I've got openings in
Speaker:
2044.
Speaker:
No, I'm teasing. I'd love to hear from anybody. And
Speaker:
that's part of what's fun about honestly. Lastly, that's part
Speaker:
of the mixed protege thing is like, I get a lot of
Speaker:
incredible requests. I love working with independent artists.
Speaker:
I love helping them release and do all that stuff.
Speaker:
And I get a lot of requests on Dana nielsen.com
Speaker:
and there's so many times when I just don't have the bandwidth.
Speaker:
But if you're doing it yourself, come hang out
Speaker:
over here. I'm in there every day
Speaker:
checking in on forums and stuff like that, learning together.
Speaker:
People upload their mixes and I try to
Speaker:
respond, as does the community, like, oh, this is
Speaker:
awesome. Try this or that. So it's another way. Well, it's
Speaker:
not the do it for you service that I can't do at the
Speaker:
moment. It's at least a way to stay connected and share some ideas,
Speaker:
and it's a nice alternative to offer people when times are
Speaker:
busy. That's cool, man. That's awesome. Well, this has been a great hang. We'll have
Speaker:
to get some coffee or something. Yes. With our embers we'll bring our embers
Speaker:
somewhere in LA, love it, and make them fill it. Let's do that. That
Speaker:
would be perfect. And then we should film it and tag Ember.
Speaker:
Ember. We are accepting sponsorships mixed protege and progressions.
Speaker:
We're open. Yes. And we need seed money for the AI headphone
Speaker:
company. So any VC investors. We're open to that
Speaker:
as well. As long as you also have an ember. That's right. Cool. Awesome,
Speaker:
man. Synergy.
Here are some great episodes to start with.
